Hello
The 1st century Greek word translated “church” in our bibles can also be translated accurately as “community”.
My Oxford English dictionary defines “church” as:
- A building used for public Christian worship. 2. A particular Christian organization with its own distinctive doctrines. 3. Institutionalized religion as a political or social force.
And “community” as:
- A group of people living together in one place or having a particular characteristic in common. 2. The condition of having certain attitudes and interests in common. 3. A group of interdependent plants or animals growing or living together.
My understanding of Jesus’ teaching makes me think that “community” is a better word than “church” to describe the kind of life he wants us, his followers, to live with each other.
What sort of people belong to Jesus’ community? Jesus said it is those who are committed to doing his Father’s will. He talked about the importance of doing his Father’s will on many occasions. Here is just one example:
“Whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother” (Matthew 12:50; see also Luke 8:21).
Jesus says those who do the will of his father are his brother, sister and mother. They are his family. Jesus’ community is a family whose members are committed to doing what our loving heavenly Father wants us to do. And what he wants us to do, first and foremost, is love him and love each other. (Matthew 22:34-39; Mark 12:28-34; Luke 10:25-28)
Jesus is only recorded as talking about his family/community twice (Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 18:15-17). On the first occasion, he was talking to Peter:
“…you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my community…” (Matthew 16:18)
For hundreds of years, experts have held deep and learned discussions on what Jesus meant by these words and, so far, they have not reached agreement. In this article I would say only that, whatever the role to be played by Peter, it is Jesus who is going to build his family/community. (I look at this verse in more detail in the article “What did Jesus say about Church Leadership?”, link below.) You will notice that these words of Jesus to Peter do not give us any guidance as to how we should organize our communities or our community activities.
On the second occasion, recorded in Matthew 18:15-17, Jesus gave clear instructions about how we, his followers, should behave if we have a problem with someone else in the community. This is important, and I look at it in more detail in the article “What did Jesus say about corruption, abuse and conflict in our churches?”, link below. However, again, this teaching does not give us any practical guidance as to how we should organize our communities or our community activities.
The simple truth is Jesus never gave us, his followers, any guidance as to how we should organize our communities or our community activities. This is great because it means that members of Jesus’ family/community, in different places and times, can develop ways of meeting that are appropriate to our own cultures and our own needs. We do not need to do things the way others do them, and we certainly do not need to do things the way others have done them for decades, or centuries.
Jesus had a clear vision for his family/community. It is set out in a prayer he prayed shortly before his arrest:
“I ask not only on behalf of these (that’s the disciples), but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word (that’s us!), that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.” (John 17:20-23).
Jesus wants us, members of his global family/community, to be one. One with him, and with our loving Father, and with each other. And it is our oneness that will show the world that our loving Father sent Jesus. Today, obviously, we do not appear to be one – we are split into thousands of denominations and groups. But members of Jesus’ true family/community are people who are committed to doing our Father’s will. And we are one. We are one with all our sisters and brothers who are also committed to doing God’s will, both those who are part of a denomination and those who are not part of a denomination. We are one.
May our loving, heavenly Father bless us all and keep us safe as we walk with him.
Jesus is Lord.
Peter O
Related articles:
“What did Jesus say about obeying God?”
“What did Jesus say about church leadership?”
“What did Jesus say about corruption, abuse and conflict in our churches?”
“What did Jesus say about Church unity? (And why aren’t we taking any notice?)”
“Do we follow the teachings of Jesus in our churches?”
“How does the devil attack the Church? – Answer 1: Division.”
“How does the devil attack the Church? – Answer 3: By making the Church an institution.”
“How does the devil attack the Church? – Answer 4: Distraction.”
“Christians leaving churches today may be Christianity’s best hope for tomorrow.”
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Your church’s emphasis on inclusivity and welcoming all individuals, regardless of their background or identity, is a shining example of the love and acceptance that should be at the core of any spiritual community. Your organization’s open arms are a source of comfort and inspiration.
Thanks for helping me understand that you belong in the community of the Lord if you’re doing the will of the Father. It seems like attending a Bible-based nondenominational church will actually tell you what the will of the Father is without any changes in what is written in the book. And I think that is important in order to ensure that what you are following from a certain church you will find is true and will actually be according to the word of the Lord.
It does not require much investigation to see that not only was Jesus attacked by Satan, but His church was assaulted immediately upon His resurrection. Reading EITHER the Apostle Paul, OR observing the subsequent direction of organized Christianity, it can CLEARLY be demonstrated that the emphasis shifted from the words of the Lord Jesus, to arguing over terms like “Trinity” or over the general auspices of headship in the Church. Both with the rise of the Roman Church and the supposed Reformation, only the return of the scriptures to be accessed by ALL people in their OWN tongue has allowed faith in Jesus to grow and flourish in the world. Jesus said, and Paul summarized, “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
In that verse about Peter the word “Peter” means “Petros G4074 – a piece of a rock”, but Jesus says His Church will be built upon “Petra G4073 – a MASS of rock” and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Remember Jesus called Peter satan, and he said that even satan knows who he is. That is why Peter knew that he was the Son of God. Peter was crucified upside down because his church is built on the church doctrine of sacrifice, but Jesus’ church is built on the WORDS OF TRUTH (see below). So Peter has the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven because he was crucified upside down – the KEY IS you have to turn everything upside down.
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. TO THIS END WAS I BORN, and FOR THIS CAUSE came I into the world, THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.” John 18:37
And Jesus says that when HIS Gospel is preached (how do we know it is different than Paul’s gospel? Because Jesus says to go spread it BEFORE he was killed), then will THE END come, what is THE END? Daniel the True Prophet (according to Jesus) tells us…
“And THIS GOSPEL of the kingdom SHALL BE PREACHED in all the world FOR A WITNESS unto all nations; AND THEN shall THE END come.” Matthew 24:14
“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an END OF SINS, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.” Daniel 9:24
–> “And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but HE THAT ENDURETH (G5278 – TARRY, STAY BEHIND) to THE END (the end of sins according to Daniel 9:24) shall be SAVED (G4982- be safe, protected, delivered, persevere).” Matthew 10:22
The specific passage from Mathew 16 reads in part:
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Jesus was impressed that the father, not man, personally revealed Jesus’ identity to Simon. Apparently that was enough to qualify Peter as the rock.
I think you hit the mark, Peter. “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” (Matt. 18:20). Size of the gathering is immaterial to the implication of community. Core focus on the summary of the law is the defining character.
What did Jesus say about church? NOTHING! the word does not exist in the the Original Manuscripts. The Greek word Ekklesia is very different that the word substituted in English Bible translations (CHURCH). The so called Church Fathers refer to early Christianity as primative and even anarchical. But the early congregations or assemblies were exactly what God had intended for his children. Small family type gatherings that desired to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and serve Him with their lives. They also desired to serve one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. No programs, no formats, no college style lectures or hierarchal establishments. Just a group of people who encountered Jesus Christ and believed. The history tells the story that current day leadership will not tell or teach because they would have empty Church (Business\Corporation) buildings if they did.
Kevin
Agreed. The word ekklesia just meant a group of people with a common purpose. I think the best translation of the word today would be community. Jesus talked about building “my community”. That’s what we are – Jesus’ community.
Peter O
Myself and my children used tobe catholics. We pray at home and at a friend’s home as a community. My mom and others are worried that we are not part of a church. I tried explaining to them that we are one with Christ when we gather together and pray and we are the church. We only hope and pray one day my entire family will be born again. My one concern is when we die we don’t have a Catholic burial ground or any denomination that we belong too. So only pray that God will shed light on that aspect. God bless you.
In Matthew 18:17 Christ commands us to hear the church and if we fail to hear the church then we are heathens. By not attending the Catholic church you are failing to hear the church and are openly rejecting the church. This is very serious and is regarded therefore as a mortal sin. Why then are you concerned about where your dead body will end up when the greatest concern should be where your eternal soul and body will end up, either heaven or hell for all eternity. No wonder your mom is worried. I’m worried too and I don’t even know you.
Brother Peter
With respect, you are misrepresenting Jesus’ words in Matthew 18:17, and taking them out of their context. Jesus is telling his followers what to do if they have a problem with another brother or sister.
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matthew 18:15-17).
So Jesus is definitely not giving a general command to his followers to “hear the church”. He is giving detailed instructions as to what they should do when problems arise within his church.
May our loving Father bless you, keep you safe, and guide you into his truth.
Peter O
Thank you Peter for taking the time and energy to share your heart and thoughts with us. You have definitely opened your mind to see past the indoctrination that is pushed by the mainstream Christian Church and it’s leadership. I thank God for people who seek Him with their whole heart and desire to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. God bless you and protect you always.
Kevin
Sincere thanks for your encouraging words.
God bless and protect you too.
Peter O
Incredible that so many people still believe all this nonsense and are prepared to spend time and money perpetuating it. Heaven and Hell are not real places, but Bible Prison certainly is. Nobody survives (or will survive) their own demise, and no amount of faith can bridge the gap between make-believe and reality. It should be so obvious. Christianity is mind-control, and where the mind leads, the rest is sure to follow. Years of study and fancy college degrees do not count. The search for the truth leads one out of Christianity, not into it. YouTube inter alia Harmonic Atheist for down-to-earth personal testimonies and enlightened perspectives. Distribute widely. People deserve better than what they’ve been getting. They have a right to know that they have been hoodwinked for two millennia.
Hello Clear Thinker
I was brought up in a dysfunctional Christian family, and a conservative evangelical church. Was mind-control attempted on me by some members of my family and some people in that church? Yes. It was. But I have my own mind and I wanted to find truth. You say “where the mind leads, the rest is sure to follow”. I agree with you. You say “The search for the truth leads one out of Christianity, not into it”. That is partly true of my experience, but it is not the whole of it. My search for truth led me away from almost everything I was taught in that church. But my search for truth led me towards Jesus’ teachings, not away from them. “Treat others the way you like to be treated”. “Don’t judge others”. “Don’t condemn others”. “Forgive others”. For me, there is truth in these words.
You say “incredible that so many people still believe all this nonsense…” Yes. It is incredible that, today, millions of people find truth in the teachings of Jesus. You do not. Can you be sure that you are right and millions of others are wrong?
I’d like to read your thoughts on another article on the site “Is there evidence that God exists? Yes!” https://followtheteachingsofjesus.com/articles/odds-and-ends/can-we-prove-that-god-exists-well-i-think-we-could.html
Finally, would you tell me what, for you, is the one clearest piece of evidence that God does not exist?
I’m looking forward to more discussion on this.
Peter O
You said
Jesus’ teachings, not away from them. “Treat others the way you like to be treated”. “Don’t judge others”. “Don’t condemn others”. “Forgive others”. For me,
You don’t have to follow Jesus
All of these sayings are just common sense, that any person educated or not knows but often doesn’t practice.
No Jesus needed.
Jimmy
I AGREE WITH YOU!
These things are common sense. They are written on the hearts of every human being. Jesus did not introduce these sayings. “Treat others the way you like to be treated”, for example, is much older than Jesus. Confucius said it, in a slightly different form, 500 years before Jesus:
“Zi Gong asked ‘Is there any one word that could guide a person throughout life?’ The Master replied ‘How about “Reciprocity”! Never impose on others what you would not chose for yourself.'”
So, Confucius said “Reciprocity” is the one word that can guide a person throughout life. Jesus said “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” This “Golden Rule” is found, in one form or another, in most religions.
You don’t have to follow Jesus. In his “sheep and goats” parable, Jesus thanked a group of people whom he called “the righteous” for feeding him when he was hungry, befriending him when he was a stranger, clothing him when he needed clothes, and visiting him when he was sick or in prison. The people he was talking to were bewildered and asked when they had done these things for him. Jesus responded “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”
My mission is to Christians. My mission is to encourage Christians to put human teachings on one side and follow the teachings of Jesus. My mission is not to convince non-Christians that they should become Christians. That is not my job. Others may be called to that work, but I am not. I am called to encourage Christians to follow the teachings of Jesus.
Good talking to you Jimmy. God bless you.
Peter O
You are not your own the breathe that you breath is a give from a loving God and When God gets ready to take that breathe from you then you will be judge for the deeds that your body have committed and for your sake GOOD LUCK PEACE BE WITH YOU.
I have slowly but surely learned to base my
beliefs solely on the words of Jesus Christ himself….therefore do not consider organized religion and church building a requirement. And he’s there are actually thing in the Bible that contradict the words of Jesus so that should be a clue. If we consider Jesus the son of God or Lord then we should only be concerned with his teachings.
I also am just waking up to the idea that Jesus’s teachings alone fulfill GOD’s requirements on His congregation.
Truly
Peter O
“All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.”
2 Timothy 3:16
Hello Vanessa
Thanks for your comment.
I’d be interested in hearing what you think about the article “What is the evidence that the Bible is inspired?” In this article, I examine the scripture you have quoted in detail. You will find the article under the section “Our Bibles”. The URL for the article is:
https://followtheteachingsofjesus.com/articles/what-did-jesus-say-about-the-bible/what-is-the-evidence-that-the-bible-is-inspired.html
If you do read the article, I’d like to hear what you think about it. Leave a post here or email me at peter@followtheteachingsofjesus.com
God bless you.
Thanks again.
Peter O
Church is not a building, but rather people. The “called out” ones. Set apart, and thus “holy”. The concept of church as taught in modern “Christianity” today bears as much semblance to Christ as does Capitalism to Communism.
I really enjoy how you put together the commands of Jesus. You can find contrary other direction from Paul in the comments above. Yes Jesus did command contrary to Paul’s instruction about church. We have one teacher and only need of one teacher. We are all brothers and sisters. No need to try to create a hierarchy of positions in churches. The people are the church not a building or denomination. Thanks Paul for your comments, but I’ll defer to the Savior.
When talking about the pharisees, did not Jesus also say do as they say not as they do… Saul before he became Paul was a pharisee, which added to the strength of his teaching, many would say. Regardless though, wouldn’t Jesuses own words validate Paul’s teaching?
Hi Paul,
The Pharisees did teach the law. So this would be correct. Matthew chapter 23 is all about Jesus pointing out the actions of the Pharisees. Matthew 23:23 NKJV
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
They spoke the law but did not execute the law. Justice, mercy, and faith. Jesus is the word and as God said, “Listen to Him”. Only one Him.
Blessings in Christ.
Dave
David,
Thanks for spotlighting Mt. 23! How can anyone discuss “church” outside of Jesus’ OWN definition? He speaks about His followers ALL through the “gospels.” But, the early Gentile leaders promptly dismissed the Jewish people, in spite of Isaiah 49!!! They get a big fat “F” for comprehending Romans 11! God ALWAYS has a LOT to say about whatever HE says.
Scripture states that Jesus went to synagogue, which in the day, was a place of worship. This leads us mere humans to assume that he went to worship. Based on the scripture that I have read, I believe that Jesus went to the synagogue to teach. If you do not think that attending chapel is an important part of “Spiritual Growth”, then please read Revelation Chapters 1,2 and 3. If you are attending a worship service that “no true teachings of the word of God” is spoken-please read Revelation Ch 1/Ch2,and Ch3. I pray that each of us are granted the ears to hear and eyes to see the truth-despite satans tactics. In Jesus name, Amen.
Hello Adrian.
I agree that meeting with other followers of Jesus is an important part of spiritual growth. Indeed, for me, private prayer and discussion with others are the two main ways through which God enables me to grow. My concern is that many churches in mainstream denominations have been adding human teachings to the teachings of Jesus and the emphasis placed on these human teachings is getting in the way of effective ministry for these churches.
I agree that human teachings are getting in the way of effective ministry And the Church will be held accountable by God for their teachings. My concern is that people are using it as an excuse NOT to attend worship services. Scripture dictates that we are to attend worship services. We are the Church.
“And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near”. Hebrews 10:24
“Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near”. Hebrews 10:25
“And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers”. Acts 2:24
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” Colossians 3:16
“Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood”. Acts 20:28
Brother Adrian
What do you consider to be a church? Jesus said “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” (Matt. 18:20).
Yes, Jesus is in the presence of 2 or more. Additionally Jesus commands us to gather together. I believe that Biblically speaking, church is not an event (attending church) nor is it a place (going to church); WE (God’s people) are the church (representing the body of Christ. Christ is the head of the church (body).
• Romans 12:4-5 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
• Ephesians 4:16 From whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
• Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
• 1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
• Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood
• Hebrews 10:25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.
I want to encourage everyone (nonbeliever’s and believer’s) to seek out a church that is fitting. There is no such thing as “the” perfect church- But we serve a perfect God who is merciful and graceful. As God’s people we are tasked with not only gathering together to worship and praise-but also to lead others into of life of Christ. No Excuses:) God Bless
Hi Adrian,
I appreciate your comments. I like to go to the words of Jesus in chapter 4 of the book of John. Jesus was clear to the Samaritan woman how we will worship. This and a few other verses helped clear up what Jesus was sharing to her about what was about to change in terms of worship. Not just how but where.
John 4:21-24 NKJV
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. [22] You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. [23] But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. [24] God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Worship in truth:
John 8:31-32 NKJV
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. [32] And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 6:63 NKJV
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
He is the Word. His words are Spirit. Abiding in His spirit it to stay in His word as they bring life to us today.
Jesus was clear to the Samaritan woman that no longer will you need to go to a mountain or a synagogue (church building), etc. So this also applies for all of us today.
Blessings in Christ
Dave
Preachers are NOT teaching properly!! They preach mainly about God’s Love, goodness, grace,mercy and forgiveness of sin an so on which is true and wonderful to know yet they don’t talk about SIN and call it out Name by Name! Yes, God is awesome yet He gets tired of people Lying, stealing, cheating, gambling, fornicating, adultery, homosexuality/lesbians, idolatry, murdering, gossiping,racism and any other kind of sins out in the world. Whether people want to hear or not, they need too. Preacher are responsible for their souls and if you’re not teaching them things to keep them from going to hell, you’re accountable for that!! True enough people should study and read for themselves but since half the world DON’T, the preacher should be doing this since you claimed to be called by God…Peoples spirit needs to be pricked every time they come to church about such things so their souls are convicted and convinced they need to turn away from their sins and stop playing with God!!!!
Sorry but the Devil and hell are not real. People are giving power to such unrealistic people and things and never realize that when you blame the Devil you make evil men not accountable for their actions and you give an unseen unproven spirit blame. The Devil has no power to make you do evil that is already within man to do so. In the Bible when man did evil HaShem didn’t blame the Devil, Lucifer, the Serpent or HaSatan he blamed man for doing their own evil. Again the Devil isn’t real he’s man’s way of shifting blame without taking full accountability
Hello JayB
I’m not sure why you raise this point in regard to this article, which does not address the devil or hell. Please let me know if you would like me to move your comment to another article.
Nonetheless, to engage with you on your point, I would say the following:
We humans cannot know, for certain, whether the devil or hell are real. We don’t know. We may form opinions but we cannot know for sure.
I, personally, believe that God is good, just and loving and he created this world and everything in it. Clearly something is wrong with this world, and I can’t see any convincing explanation for this wrongness that does not include the existence of some active intelligence that opposes God and tries to hinder his work. But, of course, I could be wrong.
Also, this site is focused firmly on the teachings of Jesus and Jesus certainly seemed to think the accuser (Satan) is real (For example: Mark 4:15; Luke 10:18; Luke 13;16; Luke 22:31). (I’m not going to get into detailed discussion about the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words that have been translated ‘Satan’ or ‘Devil’ in this response.)
I agree that we humans must be accountable for our own actions.
God bless you. Thanks for commenting.
Peter O
You sound like a FOOL!! Read your bible!! If you don’t repent of your sins and turn to Christ, that’s where you’re headed buddy.?
Matthew 25:41 Jesus says “depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the Devil and his Angels.”
Matthew 13:42 Jesus says: “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Go back and read for yourself!!!
You’re discrediting what Jesus is saying if you think there’s no HELL!
Hello Sister Ruth
I have decided to publish your comment. But, with respect, please remember that this site is for those who follow the teachings of Jesus. That means it is for those who actively try to love others and treat others they way they like to be treated themselves. I am sure you would not want to be told that you sound like a fool. Please don’t address others this way.
Thanks.
Sincerely
Peter O
“…on this rock I will build my community…” (Matthew 16:18) I understand ‘this rock’ to be the whole earth, this then means that God can be everywhere, which makes sense, because there is no place that God can’t reach, from the bottom of the oceans to the highest mountains, He will be there.
I also acknowledge the way that the ‘religious’ people of Jesus’s day treated Him.
In my experience, churches are still not very welcoming, they endorse elitism, favouritism, exclusion and gossip, which I have witnessed in 3 of my local churches that I have personally attended. These churches do not embrace, encourage or support members spiritually.
Unfortunately the church hasn’t come very far since Jesus’s day.
To me the Bible is as simple as a recipe book. It is a recipe for life. You leave something out your recipe fails, you get all the ingredients right you have a wonderful result
I know this is off the subject but I’ve a question I need to ask. Wasn’t the Bible written for God ‘s children to read and understand why He came to earth as a human just like we are, to set an example for us to follow? Well I’m wondering why it has to be interpreted for us to understand. When I read my bible I understand what it’s telling me. I wonder if Jesus knew the Bible would be so hard for us to understand that we’d need to go to a Bible college to know what He’s telling us. I fell like the Bible was written so everyone could understand it without any trouble. To me I feel like whenever someone else tell me what the Bible means it’s their interpretation of how they understand what it says. I’m not a college graduate or even a high school graduate but to me really when I read my Bible I understand exactly what God is telling me. I’m wondering if there are people that feel like if they don’t go to Bible school they can’t understand the Bible
Love what you said, I feel the same way.
God is wise and full of Mercy and Truth, His words are written, so that even a child would understand…God is not an author of confusion, but we must be born again, so that once we receive the Holy Spirit of God, He will teach us all things. The only way our minds and hearts can be transformed to God’s way of thinking, we must study His words. God is our Heavenly Father and the only way to know Him is to trust and obey his words daily and pray in the name of Jesus Christ..Romans 10:9-10, John 3:1-7, Matthew 28:17-20..look up every scripture on repentance, and baptism, but the last commandment Jesus gave his 11 disciples was and is the responsibility of True Follower’s of Jesus Christ.
God did not create denominations and Jesus did not tells us to create different bodies within his church. God says we are one body made up of different parts, he did not mean denominations. And we know that not all groups or denominations claiming to be christian are not teaching the truth of God the bible nor the true gospel message for Salvation. And if a person is apart of a denominations like this, it is because they believe in what their being taught. We need to make sure they have the truth before we say they are alright. So there are not true believers in every denomination.
Hello Debra
Thanks for your comments. You said “So there are not true believers in every denomination”. With respect, are you prepared to say which denominations you think do have true believers, and which do not, and, most importantly, why you believe this?
Peter O
But Jesus was talking to Peter directly when He said , “You are Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Church.” Do you realize He never said one thing about the coming of a Book? Did you know that all the Popes…good ones bad ones, brilliant ones, not so brilliant ones …all of them go back to Peter? Jesus said …”and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against Her?”’Our Pastor says we are all actually Catholics, Catholics who can’t stop protesting so we just start another Church which is really just another chip off the old Rock!!!!!!!!!
In that our faith is defined as our personal relationship with The Lord, we must put all of our attention to that. Study, prayer, love, honor, and devotion to Him only is paramount.
Our religion is defined as our relationship with our brothers and sisters in Christ and how we relate to this world as a whole. We get that guidance from our relationship with The Holy Spirit and allowing His Church to be guided by The Spirit and not by our own understanding.
Hello Crandall.
Thanks for your comment.
In Jesus’ teaching, love is paramount. Certainly Jesus emphasizes prayer as vital. Honor and devotion are part of love. I don’t agree that study is paramount. Jesus never instructed or encouraged his followers to study. What do you think?
Peter O
Jesus spoke in parables. Must we not study them to learn from them?
Hello! What version of the bible are the passages from in this text? I agree with what you’re saying, just trying to get a reference for the word used here “community”. Thank you!
Hello Sherry
I take full responsibility for translating the word εκκλησιά as “community” rather than “church”. In Jesus’ time, εκκλησιά just meant “assembly”. It was used for any gathering of people, not just religious gatherings. It could also mean an association. I chose the word “community” because it seemed closest to Jesus’ meaning, taking into account a number of things he said about who would be his true followers and how they would relate to him and to each other. I had a difficult time deciding whether “community” or “family” is really the best word to use. I think “family” better describes the community that Jesus intends us to be, however “family” is not a reasonable translation of εκκλησιά. I hope this answers your question. Translation can be tricky.
Hello Peter,
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see’-ah)
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Usage: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.
I don´t agree with you, in regarding the term was only for relegious purpose in synagogues but thank you for the article. I will read more about Jewish hebrew and greek for assembly.
The Lord bless you and keep you; The Lord make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you; The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace.
Jorge
Thank you.
God bless you too.
Peter O
I rarely reply to posts and email strings, as I see the comments and replies usually devolve into simple one-liners and cliches so any attempts at actual dialog or thought become worthless. However, I feel everyone that has posted to this is really looking at this in an attempt to build up their relationship with God and seek understanding.
First off, the Church is community. I think Jesus has made this clear, He wants us to build each other up, pray, give to each other, sharpen, etc. In the end it’s all about people. But I think we have also become more separated from this idea of the importance of a physical place of spiritual importance and it’s impact on this same community (church) God want’s us to have. I think we sometimes make this “place” of church and the “community” of church an either / or. We make them more exclusive then they should be. Please, PLEASE, as you read below do not think that I’m trying to advocate for us to make the church about being simply going to a building on Sunday and checking the box “I was at church”. Maybe all I’m trying to do is articulate a view that does not discount physical space and it’s possible impact on our spiritual lives and those outside the church. Giving us some food for thought….
Let me give context to this. I’ve grown up as a Christian and followed God for many years and I’m also an architect. I’m passionate about “both” (not equally by any stretch)…so this idea of the physical place of the church (a place of spiritual presence) has really intrigued me over the years. I’ve studied and visited churches historically and find many of them moving and beautiful. I’ve designed spaces in churches, with the expressed desire to make them a place where you can feel closer to God (Did someone really feel that, or did they think it had some cool crosses on the wall and nice lighting?). The tabernacle is extremely important place to God. Read the accounts of it (in many places, mostly Exodus), God designed it, and He mandates some of the most expensive materials to be placed of His house (“Well, that’d be better if we gave that money to missions”). The descriptions of how things are to be made, how those items are the result of talents and dedication and artistry shows that “things” can honor God. The rebuilding of the Temple, shapes a great deal of Old Testament’s narrative. Why is the torn curtain in Jesus’ crucifixion so important to us…because a physical space, with deeply spiritual significance, it was God’s presence, was now open to us and his presence is now in us.
Visits to cities (“You went to Rome, but did not even try to go to St. Peters?” You were in Paris, but Notre Dame was not on your list?), even for the non-christian the built environment can have spiritual significance, let alone the faithful. I know that many of the churches were built on the backs of slave labor with “taxes” essentially that the “church” (more as governmental agency) required of their parishioners to pay for these monumental spaces. I understand the means were not always with pure hearts with many churches, but did not God ask similar (I”m going to use similar” on purpose, because God is asking for willing sacrifices, not forcing slavery )acts for his place? Contributions and labor were required in Exodus.
Again, please don’t mistake my post. I personally go to a church that has no natural light, not a stained glass window or Gothic arch in sight and the ceiling is too short. We meet in the old gym and even that makes my “church” sound a little prettier then it is. We have cameras that display the music team as they sing a little too much like a performance. Those same cameras display the pastor at about a ten scale, so he looks a little too much like a talking head on the news, but because it’s also live, I get that half-second delay on the audio, so it can be really annoying. Why? because I love the people (the church body) there, I have ways to serve to people outside the church (my neighbor) with the greatest need of meeting Jesus, I am challenged with biblical teaching, etc. It’s not about the space… at the same time, I worry that part of the church’s diminishing impact may be our attempts to make our physical presence downplayed (We can worship God in a warehouse…”true”…). We don’t need to spend our money on that (The missions argument) yet God himself did not do that when he was in charge of design. Are we meant to follow what God does? What if we emphasized that this actual “space” you are coming into God’s presence (and not ‘cuz there’s more then two of us there) so that you felt in your bones that God was in this place, with you, right now, so that simply being in a church could not become perfunctory.
I havn’t been to church apart from weddings, christenings and funerals for decades, although i have been in churches to marvel at the architecture and beauty and feel the amazement at how they built wonderful medieval churches back then all that time ago and ancient buildings going back as far as sumaria up to 450,000 years ago, the first civilized civilization on earth before greece and rome. They had law and order, maths, astrology and writings and they even new where the planets of our solar system were and what colours the planets were even though it’s only in the last decade or 2 we have been able to see the actual colours of these planets with the latest technology, so for them to get the solar system layout right and the colours of the planets right they must have been educated as it would be impossible for them to know otherwise. They talked about the sky gods and laying down of their civilization and because the tablets go back so far it is absolutely genuinely ancient and how amazing they were to live in a peaceful civilization and have knowledge like that which even in medieval times people wouldn’t even have known not until modern times when the tablets could be translated and not even then did we know what they did which is incredible when u think about it, it’s like the greek, roman, and egyptian civilizations after the 1st one went backwards instead of forwards especially regarding peace and order and barbaric treatnent of others including the love of money and themselves and living precariously not knowing if a lie told about you could end up being tried and slaughtered either by others or by lions even. In the middle ages life was hard and precarious for quite a lot of people unless you had wealth and the victorians were the same but got through and the whole point of this comment is is that the world has got worse and worse instead of better, the thought of living in sumeria back maybe as long as a couple of hundred thousand years ago and be living in a peaceful society and a world of peace back then sure seems very enticing compared to the world we live in today which seems to be completely reversed in every way. Even the catholic church doesn’t and never had believed in jesus christ, the pope is ordained as the closest person on earth to god, not recognizing jesus as the son of man and the pope living in a palace with unbelievable wealth and power, telling catholics praying to jesus is dangerous and comparing it to trying to contact the dead using ouija boards, not to mention signs of devil worship below where their secret library is and they pray to Mary who isn’t the mother of Jusus, but is known as a deity Mary wueen of heaven which is blasphemous as well as singing about oh lucifer and jesus being his son, o.m.g i watched it on youtube and was totally horrified, they have the real throne of satan and an obilisk outside, dragon sculpture friezes and the worse thing is is that the u.k was pushed into changing tge holy sabbath day to sunday because the vatican ordered it because they believe in the pagan sun god still and it really is heretical the who religion is anti Jesus and the pope given a tital proclaiming himself as god on earth which is the most vile, discusting thing and inexcusable by god a human could ever say or would dare say if he or she believed and wanted to be saved. I believe in god but for decades havn’t gone to church because god said the holy sabbath will be on the seventh day and no other, and so saying a prayer to god when at home on a saturday delivered to him through Jesus christ while at home or if out and about saying it in your head knowing that Jesus and God can hear you still makes so much more sense to me. I tried joining the seventh day adventist church but i never heard anything back after applying online and they are strict on who they accept but i do believe and i don’t as Christ said have to go to a temple or a church to speak to god or to Jesus Christ our saviour.
I’m a Catholic and I don’t think you know or understand enough about it’s history and teachings to even refer to it. Please forgive me for being rude . I don’t mean to be rude but how else can I say it when your info is so wrong. For example, Jesus did say to Peter, “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against her.” Pope Francis traces his roots back to Peter. Every Pope has been human but none have altered the tenants of the Faith. Jesus never said one word about the coming of the New Testament. The only reason the New Testament exist is because Jesus didn’t come back so people started writing things down and the Church put the ones together that they claimed were true. And there is yours and my beloved book.
Jesus said “Whose sin you shall forgive they are forgiven them, whose sins you shall retain they are retain.” That is where Confession comes from.
THEN!….He said those words that got His followers in so much trouble in the earliest days. “Eat my Body and drink my blood or you will have no life in you.” They were accused of being Cannibals . He said so many things but He never wrote any thing down, although He could write. He also said wanted us to be one and to love one another. In truth Christians get along in almost everything accept the Church. The New Testament came along because He didn’t come back and didn’t come back and never has…we still believe He will .
The reason Pope Benedict retired , the second one in History who has, is because of the behavior of Homosexuals . Quite a few of them deliberately became Priests and manage to get themselves into Vatican City to live. Then had orgies in St Peter’s. He just couldn’t deal with it. Sorry I’ve been rambling on. I get started and can’t stop. So I shall stop now.
God bless you. But it really is our Book And I really don’t know what you mean when you say Mary is not Jesus Mother. What is His Mother’s name then????
I think the greatest church is that of our body…ie,Emmanuel.meaning God in us..for your information,Jesus never went to the temple/church to pray but to teach and listen to teachers.when he wants to pray ,you will find him in desolate places and that is why he said that if you want to pray,you enter your room,lock your door and pray to your God who is in secret and he who sees in the secret will bless you in secret…as far as the 3rd temple is not yet built,then I tell you that all the churches are not worth of the glory of our father who is in us…if you read meaning into proverbs you will agree with me that you don’t need church for prayers for our greatest teacher Jesus himself said that time shall come and the time is now when the true worshippers will not worship in Jerusalem nor in the mountains but in spirit and truth.God manifested in all life and all we need to do is to be in union within ourselves in other to connect with God whom is within us…..Jesus is a keeper of the law and he commanded us to imitate him in keeping the law ,not to worship him as the present so called man of God are propagating ..a little question please…have any of you tried connecting with your soul and spirit which God gave us so that through them we can get to him…PEACE!!!
The devil will use any vice to keep his people separated. Plant a seed that we don’t need churches, keep people from wanting to go. Awe what a nice tactic. He knows Iron Sharpens Iron, He knows where two or more gather that can be dangerous. Jesus went to church as a regular practice. If it wasn’t important he wouldn’t have set the example. God wants a church on fire for him. Not cold nor Luke warm ON FIRE. These churches do exist… you have to be willing to stop critiquing and get out there and find the one that is for you. I go to church on a regular basis Sunday. Wednesday and anything in between not because I HAVE to but because I WANT to. When the fire of the Holy Spirit shows up on a Sunday and the whole world is blocked out and it’s just you and God nothing can compare to that. The devil is relentless on his attack of Gods people. We need each other, we need to grow together … we are not of this world. You can only get so much from the screen. Human contact is needed. We are all one body with different parts. We need each other …. God Bless
As much as we need each other, are we for each other in church? Is the devil not within the church? It is good to be in church but are we practicing true worship in church? Church no longer preach love, they only preach fear and prosperity, you are either told you have an enemy or you are told that you will be rich, no salvation, no true teaching of the word of God